This is the first in a series of “Not’ interviews with famous innovators. These interviews are special. They require our Not speaker to be exceptionally well versed about their character. The speaker must listen to numerous interviews or read extensively about the person they are emulating so they not only know them but so that they can BE them.
Our guest speaker today is Not Elon Musk. He’s a pistol; we can tell you that. But there can be no doubt; this Vision Master is brilliant. Enjoy the video and the transcript of the interview below.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Wow. So this is your Vision Master podcast from Intelliversity. I am Robert Steven Kramarz, the Co-Founder of Intelliversity. And today, we have a very interesting guest, you may recognize. This is Not Elon Musk. How are you, Not Elon?
Speaker 2 (Not Elon):
I’m doing well, Rob. How are you doing?
Robert Steven Kramarz:
We’re going to be talking about some interesting topics. We’re going to keep this away from the usual technical talk that other interviewers use. But it won’t be the stupid shit that Joe Rogan talked about either. So I hope that the listeners will get something of value out of this-
Speaker 2:
All right.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
So you, Not Elon, you’re familiar with my concept of Vision Master and Execution Master. Am I correct on that?
Speaker 2:
You are. I read Born to Star. Thank you for sending me a copy. I won’t be autographing it, but I’ll be keeping it. Thank you. It was a good book.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
So do you think, from the book, you are more like Edison or like Tesla?
Speaker 2:
That’s a great question. Obviously, I have great admiration and respect for Nikola Tesla. I mean, I named Tesla Motors after him, and I think he’s under appreciated in today’s intellectual community, or whatever the term is. But reluctantly, I think I’m more like Edison because Edison actually brought products to market and actually changed lives. They weren’t theoretical. They were real shit. So I’d rather make real shit than have great ideas.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
So you have both, real shit and vision?
Speaker 2:
I have both. Thank you.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Right. So isn’t that the definition of Vision Master, is someone who has great visionary ideas and makes them happen, makes them happen?
Speaker 2:
You know what? That’s probably right out of your book, right? I mean, I guess you would consider Tesla to be a visionary and Edison to be a Vision Master.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Right. There you go. And you don’t mind the fact that maybe Edison stole some of his ideas and bullied people? Doesn’t that bother you?
Speaker 2:
Well…I mean, if your purpose on earth is to make a change and to improve mankind, I think that the end may justify the means to a point. I mean look at the result
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Well, we’re going to get back to that question, is Not Elon Musk an asshole, in just a moment. But you’re queuing up that conversation, aren’t you, Not Elon, by making that remark?
Speaker 2:
Well, but it’s true.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
All right, so let’s there. Let’s go to that question, Not Elon.
Speaker 2:
Okay.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Are you an asshole?
Speaker 2:
I can be an asshole, but I’m not an asshole. Because I think the technical definition of an asshole, and I love the fact that we were doing this, the technical definition of an asshole is somebody who just well, that’s their way of being. As opposed to, let’s say, a jerk, which I’ll own up to. I’m a jerk. But I can be an asshole, but I can also not be an asshole. I think an asshole is an asshole all the time, and a jerk can choose it as a way of being, if it’s appropriate for a particular situation.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
So you don’t feel like you’re … An asshole is someone who feels they’re entitled to be an asshole.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
That becomes who they are. Whereas the jerk just uses it as a way of solving problems.
Speaker 2:
That’s right.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Something like that?
Speaker 2:
Sometimes you just got to be an asshole.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Or at least a jerk. Right?
Speaker 2:
I’m always a jerk. But I can be an asshole when I need to be.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
For you, you’re entitled to be a jerk, but not entitled to be an asshole. Am I correct on that?
Speaker 2:
Well, I don’t know if entitled … Because I don’t like the word entitled, but if you are a jerk, that’s who you are, right? It’s not an entitlement.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
All right. I think we’ve beat this subject to death. But this brings back the subject of you’ve quite often pointed out that we’re living in a simulation. We might be living in a simulation.
Speaker 2:
We might.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Right? And at other times you’ve said, “Thank God I have someone like Gwynne Shotwell to work with over at SpaceX.” Right? So how do you reconcile the fact that you say thank God, and then the next conversation we’re living in a simulation?
Speaker 2:
Well, if you think about it, thank God is just a saying. And back to your simulation question, it’s kind of like smoking dope. I mean, a lot of people question whether smoking dope makes you a better lover or you just think you are. So it doesn’t really matter, does it, whether you are, or you think you are. And it’s the same thing with the simulation. I mean, it doesn’t matter whether we’re in a simulation or we believe in God, it really isn’t going to change our outcomes in any way.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Well, aren’t they pretty much the same thing? I mean …
Speaker 2:
Depends. I mean, if you’re a deep believer, you would be offended if I said they were. And that’s the power, or the danger, if you will, of thinking that way. Right? Because to me, whether it’s a simulation or whether there is a God doesn’t make any difference, but if you’re a believer-
Robert Steven Kramarz:
I know. I got you.
Speaker 2:
I’m going to alienate those people.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
You’ve never really been afraid of alienating anybody, have you, Not Elon?
Speaker 2:
Me? Well, I think it’s cool to alienate people.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Now we’re getting closer to the truth.
Speaker 2:
If you don’t do that, there’s no discord. Everybody’s nodding their head and nobody’s making stuff happen.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
All right. So then you view yourself as a disruptor, which is a characteristic of a Vision Master.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
How would you … So what’s the difference between being what you are, a Vision Master, and being an Execution Master, like Gwynne and like Robyn Denholm, for example?
Speaker 2:
Well, my job is to disrupt. I’m not looking to make marginal improvements in things, I want things to be 10 times better.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Right.
Speaker 2:
And so as a Vision Master, I’m looking for this 10X improvement, but the Execution Master’s job is to put that into reality and make it happen.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Well, isn’t that your job to put it in reality and make it happen too? That’s what you said earlier.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I did. But my job is to find the right person to make that happen. I’m still the architect of the strategy because that’s the role of a Vision Master.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Well, if you’re the disruptor, if that’s your role, what would their role be?
Speaker 2:
To keep me from messing things up.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
They’re more like stabilizers. When you disrupt a lot, they stabilize, right?
Speaker 2:
Right. But that’s what it takes … I mean, your book pointed it out. I’m not arguing with it. There’s something in a Vision Master’s personality, because we probably have very short attention spans, that is not going to make sure that the idea came to fruition. Maybe that’s what some of the delay was in Tesla.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Well yeah, it’s interesting. So let’s go to that subject. In SpaceX, you pretty well have been with Gwynne Shotwell from pretty close to the beginning.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
And she’s elevated now to the president’s role. SpaceX has been pretty successful since the bad year in 2008. It’s really a rocket ship to the stars right now, right?
Speaker 2:
Right.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
I have fun reading about the spaceship and Texas and all that stuff. Yeah. But whereas Tesla was really touch and go until late 2018. And now of course, it’s rocketed to the moon too, the stock price and the profitability.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
So under pressure from the S&C, you brought in Robyn Denholm to be the Chairman of the Board in late 2018. Is it any coincidence that the company took off shortly thereafter?
Speaker 2:
Probably not. I mean, I’d hate for it to be a coincidence. But I mean, I know … Look, Robyn’s an extremely talented person. She figured stuff out very quickly and she made an impact right away. I wish I’d have done it sooner.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Well, why didn’t you do it? That’s the big question here. That’s the really big question. So Tesla was really touch and go and an absolute problem at every turn until 2018, for you. Loss of sleep. Why didn’t you do it? Why did you wait so long to have her on board or someone like her?
Speaker 2:
I would have to say that ego certainly played a role. I go back to your Vision Master analogy, I am a bit of a control freak. Maybe just a little. I think maybe I wanted to do it myself, and it took quite a while to realize that I-
Robert Steven Kramarz:
You wanted to prove you can do it yourself because at SpaceX, you didn’t prove yourself.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
And so now you wanted to prove, “Gee, maybe I could do it myself.”
Speaker 2:
There may be some truth to that.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
May be some truth to that.
Speaker 2:
If Tesla is a failure on my part, I’m happy to accept full responsibility for it.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
All right. So Robyn comes on and now everything took off. It’s not entirely her doing, but she did play a role in that. And you also had Jerome Guillen, who’s now in charge of automotive, right?
Speaker 2:
Right.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
President in charge of automotive, I believe?
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
So now what’s the difference between a Jerome Guillen kind of Execution Master, and the Robyn Denholm kind of Execution Master?
Speaker 2:
Rob, excuse me, Jerome brings very specific skills and talents. I mean, he’s a product guy, he’s a car guy. Tesla may be a lot of things, but at its heart, obviously it’s a car company. So you got to have a car guy in a car company. I mean, you got to have rocket scientists at SpaceX, and you got to have car guys at … I mean, it’s not rocket science to figure that one out. But that’s a different guy than I need to make the stocks go, and I need to make operations go. It’s a different skillset.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Okay. So working with Robyn at Tesla, you know from Born to Star, that Warren Buffett has a Execution Master, he being the Vision Master at-
Speaker 2:
Berkshire.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
… Berkshire Hathaway. Warren calls Charlie Munger his no-man because he’s always willing to tell him that it’s not a good idea. More often than not. Is that how it works with, say, Robyn Denholm at Tesla?
Speaker 2:
Not really. I mean, Warren’s a very smart guy and he’s in a very different business. He’s in the business of possible. So there are plenty of nos available in that business. I would challenge Robyn if she came back with a no, and she probably wouldn’t come … Remember, I’m a jerk. So you don’t go to jerks and say no.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
All right, let me give you an example. So you go to Robyn and you say, “Robyn, we need to set up Giga plant in every major market. Two in the US, maybe three. Two in Europe, two in Asia. Three and four in Asia, maybe. And that’s going to be … It’s just obvious to me. It’s more environmentally sound and you want to be closer to the market. So what’s it going to … Can we do that? What’s it going to take to do that?”
Robert Steven Kramarz:
How would she answer? Would she say no? How would she answer?
Speaker 2:
She would give me what I call an almost no. She would go, “Well, we got to do this, and it’s going to cost that, and it’s going to take this long, and we got to fund it, we got to …” We didn’t get to where we are today by just nodding our heads and accepting nos. We got to where we are by creating an impossible mission challenge, as the press has begun to call it or whatever the proper term is. So I’d probably tell Robyn, “Look, you got 14 days. I want you to come back to me with a plan to execute this.”
Robert Steven Kramarz:
All right.
Speaker 2:
And the beautiful thing about working with very talented people, is she’s probably going to come back with something that’s better than even I thought was possible. And that’s-
Robert Steven Kramarz:
I know that Gwynne does that over at SpaceX. You’ll tell her we got to get to Mars by such and such a date, and what, she’ll come back with a trip that’ll go to Venus and Mars or something like that.
Speaker 2:
Something like that.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
You know? [inaudible 00:14:46].
Speaker 2:
That’s the magic that we bring to the market.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
But the difference is that Robyn doesn’t work for you. She’s the Chairman of the Board. You work for her. So wouldn’t she be uncomfortable with your giving her a mission impossible, come back to me in 14 days?
Speaker 2:
Well, I mean, I’m still a pretty significant shareholder in Tesla. But aside from that, she understands that while she’s the Chairman of the Board, I’m the Vision Master. And Tesla is going where Tesla is going because of my vision, and my vision for the company, and my vision for its manufacturing. So it’s a slightly different dynamic.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Well, it’s interesting. In a upcoming podcast, we’re going to cover the women in the life of Not Elon Musk.
Speaker 2:
Oh, boy.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
So we’ll have a chance to dive more deeply into why you chose these particular women.
Speaker 2:
All right.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
I’m talking wives as well as chairman and presidents.
Speaker 2:
All right.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
I notice you’re kind of squirming a little bit there, Not Elon. Is that going to be a problem for you?
Speaker 2:
Well, I was hoping to stay off of the therapist couch on this interview. [inaudible 00:16:10] myself. We’ll come back. Women are an important part of my life. I love them.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
All right, well we’re going to put that off until two from now because the next one, what I want to cover, is the specific subject of, wait a second, I have it right here, the specific subject of … Now I’ve forgotten it. Give me a second. We may have to cut this pause out. Oh, yeah.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
We’re going to go more deeply into how exactly you do this mission impossible management style. Because our listeners are Vision Masters, all of them, or at least they’re Vision Master wannabes. I mean, you’re the archetypal Vision Master. So they’re going to listen to you, Not Elon. They’re going to listen to you, Not Elon, about what to do in terms of managing these very smart people and getting things done.
Speaker 2:
I’ve always said that, being as I’m speaking to an audience of Vision Masters or people that are becoming Vision Masters, as an entrepreneur, if you really want to change an existing market, you better be bringing a lot of improvement to that market, 10 times better. So you don’t succeed as an entrepreneur in an established marketplace by bringing incremental changes. Why would a consumer adopt a new product for that much change? They would for that much change.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Yeah, you’re absolutely right about that. Now, but as a venture capitalist in that business, I would say that even with a 10X improvement, only one out of 10 succeed. Right?
Speaker 2:
Correct. And that’s where mission impossible comes in.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
But you’re right, because there’s … Obviously, you’re not typical because for your companies, all of them have succeeded, all of them. So far. Now, you can partly attribute to the money that you had from PayPal and all that, but there’s another factor here. It’s too many. It’s way beyond coincidence that this many successes, so there’s got to be something about your management techniques and style that make it possible for all of your ventures to succeed. I’d be happy with 50%. I am happy with 50%.
Speaker 2:
Sure.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
So that will make me a fortune, although I’ll never be worth $49 billion or whatever it is you’re worth now.
Speaker 2:
I haven’t checked today, but yeah, it’s up there.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
It’s up there, yeah. But we’re working on it. I am not worth $49 billion. I assure you of that.
But I want to find out, and all the Vision Masters want to find out, what it is that makes you nearly 100% successful on all these ventures when it comes to management. Because it’s got to be there. So that’ll be our next time, our next podcast, where we’ll be continuing this interview on the Vision Master podcast from Intelliversity, with Not Elon Musk. I want to thank you all for your attention. Looking forward to talking to you again next week, Not Elon. And thank you very much.
Speaker 2:
Roger that, Rob. Thank you.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
All right. And by the way, for the Vision Master’s out there, you can get the book, Born to Star, on our website, which is intelliversity.org. And you can also find transcripts of this interview on LinkedIn, on the website, and a couple other places, and the actual video and audio on podcast channels everywhere. So I certainly a hope you take advantage of that and listen, review and learn from Not Elon Musk. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:
Thanks, Rob.
Robert Steven Kramarz:
Bye-bye.
Speaker 2:
And off comes the mask.